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Thread: Map V2 Overview

  1. #1

    Map V2 Overview

    Hello there! Welcome to another guide: this time on the brand new version of the Dawngate map. While there have been many iterations of this map over the course of the past 2+ years of development, for simplicity's sake, this guide will refer to the new map as Map V2 throughout.

    What exactly is Map V2?

    We here at Waystone have been using this time in Closed Beta to observe and receive feedback on various things within the game. From Shapers to Items to the Map itself. The feedback on the Map has been heard, and from the brilliant minds of our Design team, a new beast has emerged. With a name like Map V2, you may be worried that we're adding lanes, or taking away Spirit Wells, but, rest assured: the absolute fundamentals of the map are the same. The Guardian still exists, the Spirit Wells still exist and there are still 2 lanes. How these things interact with each other, however, have been changed and given a facelift.

    Why was Map V2 necessary?

    There were numerous problems within Dawngate that the Design team wanted to solve, but the current version of the map with all of it's components were not adequate to really fix the systemic problems. I'll be addressing each of these problems and how the new features on Map V2 work to solve some issues that many players were experiencing.

    Snowballing

    One of the main issues currently in Dawngate was the fact that one team as a whole can snowball out of control. While comebacks were definitely possible, they were more and more unlikely as the game went on for a few key reasons:

    1. Bindings Respawn
      • Old Map Problem: While respawning Bindings was an interesting and novel concept, the actual execution was causing the snowball to grow larger and larger as the game went on. More often than not when when of the losing team's bindings did finally respawn, it was only a matter of minutes before the enemy team destroyed it again, netting themselves another large amount of Vim on a global scale.
      • Map V2 Solution: In Map V2, Bindings will no longer respawn. Their destruction is permanent. This will hopefully alleviate some of the pressure that winning teams are putting on a losing team. It's more of a hassle to have an indefensible Binding respawn purely to give the enemy team Vim. One question this may raise is: What about Striders? Will they always stay immensely powerful?
    2. Striders
      • Old Map Problem: Striders evolving when Bindings fell, and devolving when they respawned was a cool concept. In reality, however, it made snowballing an even bigger deal. When a losing team is able to miraculously win a teamfight, they could barely push back a wave of tier 3 Striders to scratch the enemy tier 1 Binding, let alone even the playing field by taking an equivalent number of Bindings down.
      • Map V2 Solution: The big change in Map V2 is that Striders will no longer spawn naturally with every 4th minion wave, but their spawning will be tied directly to defeating the Parasite. When a team slays the Parasite, they will begin to spawn Striders in both of their lanes for a short amount of time. The strength of the Striders will be relative to the Parasite Evolution. What this means is as follows:

        Parasite Evolution Evolution Time Strider Duration
        1 5:00 Mins 4:00 Mins
        2 15:00 Mins 4:00 Mins
        3 25:00 Mins 4:00 Mins

        Striders themselves are a little different. They will no longer have varying abilities depending on the Evolution of the Parasite, but will, instead, just have better stats relative to the Evolution of the Parasite. Parasite will still give the same buff that it has always given, but the global Vim gained will now be less because of it's direct correlation to Striders. The benefit to killing Parasite is now being able to spawn Striders and not giving a large swing in economy - that's a task that the Design team wants to emphasize with the Spirit Wells. Another big change to Parasite is that, not only is he in the center of the pit, but when he is slain there is a global message and vision grant to both teams. The idea of granting the global vision and messaging is so that both teams are on a level playing field as far as timing the next Parasite and posturing for a team fight is concerned. Sure, one team is spawning Striders for the next few minutes, but a team that normally is pushed into their base and unable to get a proper time on Parasite almost guaranteed they wouldn't have a chance to get the next one. With Map V2, there is now a real chance for teams that are behind to make that last ditch effort fight at Parasite and swing the game in their favor. The Parasite's respawn timer will remain unchanged at 5 minutes.


    With these key changes, the Design team intends for Map V2 to be a more fair and balanced place for all players. One team no longer should be able to spiral out of control, unless they deserve it. If each lane is continuously outplaying and killing their lane opponents, they should have the opportunity to effectively end the game. Gone are the false senses of hope that a respawning Binding was giving to losing teams, and no longer is a comeback as insurmountable as it was in the old version of the map. The only thing a losing team could potentially do on the old map was part of another problem entirely.

    Turtling

    Turtling is the act of stalling a game out beyond the time intended. When a team gets a lead, theoretically, they should be able to end the game with that lead. Some teams, however, were able to use superior wave clear and survival mechanics by dipping in and out of the Locus for heals to elongate games. While this sometimes resulted in a comeback, more often than not, it ended in a game time that was heavily inflated for and the team that was already ahead still won. To counteract turtling, the Design team has made some drastic changes to each team's base as well as the Guardian fight entirely.

    1. The Guardian
      • Old Map Problem: The Guardian fighting back is a really cool part of Dawngate, it feels like the epic boss battle at the end of a game. Certain aspects of the Guardian, however, were a little too strong. His basic attacks and abilities were a little weak in a team fight scenario, and his health was far too high. Whittling down the Guardian became a super long process and it didn't allow teams to close effectively. The 3 health bars allowed the Guardian to soak a lot of damage, and even regenerate health back over time. It became frustrating when a team took down 3/4 of a bar, then were forced out and by the time they return, their progress had been erased. With decent wave clear, a defending team could stall out the game indefinitely, because having a minion wave was absolutely paramount in fighting the Guardian. Without a minion wave, the Guardian simply dealt too much damage to Shapers. This lead to long stalemates between the teams and inflated game time drastically.
      • Map V2 Solution: The first thing you'll see on Map V2 is that the Guardian area is completely different. He has now been joined by 5 "nubs" that empower him and each give him a unique ability. These abilities include a high-powered laser that requires a charge time in a target area, a spell that emits projectiles in an area around him and they will knock up any enemy that is unlucky enough to get hit by them, as well as a few others. These abilities are highly damaging and highly disruptive in a team fighting environment. When you destroy a particular "nub", the Guardian will lose the ability which that particular "nub" was giving him. The Guardian will be invulnerable until all 5 "nubs" have been destroyed. The 3 health bars of the Guardian that players are used to have been distributed around into each of the 5 "nubs", meaning when the "final battle" with the Guardian takes place he will be a little easier to slay. In addition to all of his abilities being skill shots, his basic attacks are also now skill shot based. What this means is that 100% of the Guardian's damage is avoidable by an adept player. The "nubs" are each on a 6 minute respawn timer. By making the Guardian's basic attack a skill shot, a good team can take down the Guardian unscathed, save for the damage they may inflict from the defending team. This should make it so that a team pressing their advantage should still be able to win that key teamfight without worrying too much about the Guardian being the phantom "sixth man."
    2. The Base
      • Old Map Problem: In the old map, the Guardian's area was relatively small and compact. There wasn't a ton of room for maneuverability and teamfights to happen. The proximity of the Guardian to the Locus was also relatively small. This would allow the defending team to fall into the rhythm of wave clear -> heal -> wave clear -> heal because the safety and healing factor of their Locus was always only ever a few steps away.
      • Map V2 Solution: To account for the skillshots and abilities that the Guardian will now use, the area around the Guardian has been increased drastically. With the increased size of the Guardian's area, there is much more room for a team fight to happen. That decisive end-game team fight now has a little more room to play out, without a player being able to dip out for 5 seconds to heal real quick. Unless you're fighting right next to the Locus, rather than defending a "nub" a player on the defending team will be much further from the safety of their Locus. What the Design team hopes to accomplish with this is a final decisive team fight, rather than the defending team being able to The defending team will have to put themselves a little bit more in danger to properly wave clear and defend the "nubs".


    What does all this mean for us as players?

    All these changes mean that Dawngate is a new beast. We welcome any and all feedback that you may have for us regarding the changes we've made to the map. A lot of work and thought has been put into the design of Map V2 and improvements have been made to solve the key issues that I discussed here. Will it be perfect? Probably not, but that's where our community comes in. Closed Beta is a place that we can make these drastic changes that really shake Dawngate's gameplay to the core. We'd love to hear any and all feedback from you guys, the players, on what you like or even don't like about the map. We're making this game for the players, and we want to hear what you have to say.

    Leave us feedback in this thread, or on the subreddit (/r/dawngate). Thanks for reading, and we'll see you out on Map V2, or now it's just: The Dawngate.
    Last edited by Plootoe; 02-20-2014 at 10:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    New Parasite is good. New Guardian is better but almost kind of silly.

  3. #3
    I have to admit that some of these changes might be fun . I really want to try the new Guardian changes and im not sure what i feel about them until i try it out, but when it comes to the binding changes i kinda disagree because i liked the old way , it was different then the other moba`s ...

  4. #4
    After playing a few games, I've noticed that the opportunity for comebacks is even smaller now.

    It feels like you generate income at an incredibly reduced pace. Usually at the 30 minute mark you have most of your build done, now at the 30 minute mark you still see people running around with only 3-4 items, likely half of them only tier 2. With how slow income is, once a team gets an early lead, it's harder to catch up. That gap in power between a t2 and a t3 may be slightly smaller now, but the gap in time it takes to catch up to that is even larger. Every game so far has been incredibly one sided. Usually, whatever team has the first successful gank wins. Striders being tied to the parasite is nice, but the team that pulls ahead early is going to take every parasite spawn 9 times out of 10. Being behind and having striders spawning negates your ability to push back a lane, even after you win a teamfight.

    Also, please please please do something about predator. Every single predator I have seen so far has fallen behind. Even one that I saw got 11-1 had the least vim on his team.

  5. #5
    I am absolutely LOVING this new map

    Welldone Devs

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Plootoe View Post

    Snowballing

    One of the main issues currently in Dawngate was the fact that one team as a whole can snowball out of control. While comebacks were definitely possible, they were more and more unlikely as the game went on for a few key reasons:

    Bindings Respawn

    Old Map Problem: While respawning Bindings was an interesting and novel concept, the actual execution was causing the snowball to grow larger and larger as the game went on. More often than not when when of the losing team's bindings did finally respawn, it was only a matter of minutes before the enemy team destroyed it again, netting themselves another large amount of Vim on a global scale.


    Map V2 Solution: In Map V2, Bindings will no longer respawn. Their destruction is permanent. This will hopefully alleviate some of the pressure that winning teams are putting on a losing team. It's more of a hassle to have an indefensible Binding respawn purely to give the enemy team Vim.
    Perhaps a better solution would be to implement the "Deny feature" which comes from Dota 2. Simply put, Denying is the process of killing your own minions or destroying your towers near death in order to deny the enemy of Vim and Exp.
    Last edited by UberDrone5000; 02-27-2014 at 10:16 PM. Reason: Grammar correction

  7. #7
    Guys, not sure where are you going.

    Be sure for NOW what you want, stop messing us.

    I will check this totally weird changes, but i advertise you something that happens:
    If you going to make finally League of Legends 2.0 to promote market trade, i will just leave that game. If your users wish play League of Legends they have League of Legends that is also free.

    I liked that game as it was before, not like now.

    Competitive or casual gameplay? I don't care but bindings respawn was Ok and fell all last patch's no needed.

    Hope you don't go wrong and finally gives us something different.

  8. #8
    Let's just hope youre changes will have the desired effect now.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by UberDrone5000 View Post
    Perhaps a better solution would be to implement the "Deny feature" which comes from Dota 2. Simply put, Denying is the process of killing your own minions or destroying your towers near death in order to deny the enemy of Vim and Exp.
    LOL most definitely not.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhargo View Post
    After playing a few games, I've noticed that the opportunity for comebacks is even smaller now.

    It feels like you generate income at an incredibly reduced pace. Usually at the 30 minute mark you have most of your build done, now at the 30 minute mark you still see people running around with only 3-4 items, likely half of them only tier 2. With how slow income is, once a team gets an early lead, it's harder to catch up. That gap in power between a t2 and a t3 may be slightly smaller now, but the gap in time it takes to catch up to that is even larger. Every game so far has been incredibly one sided. Usually, whatever team has the first successful gank wins. Striders being tied to the parasite is nice, but the team that pulls ahead early is going to take every parasite spawn 9 times out of 10. Being behind and having striders spawning negates your ability to push back a lane, even after you win a teamfight.

    Also, please please please do something about predator. Every single predator I have seen so far has fallen behind. Even one that I saw got 11-1 had the least vim on his team.
    I don't understand. VIM income from all sources has been buffed. Maybe you are confusing your team's PREVIOUS ability to SNOWBALL AHEAD OF THE OTHER TEAM with BOTH TEAMS having ENOUGH ITEMS.

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