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View Full Version : Jungle Route Discussions.



TheRelicOfOwls
06-22-2013, 09:26 AM
Okay guys, I think we should discuss what some of the best jungle routes are, what their goal is, and how to go about them depending on who you're using.

As far as goals of a jungle route I see a few:

1) to farm most effectively - so taking the route that allows you to circle around and re-do camps based off of respawn timers and when they first spawn as well.

2) ganking bot lane - which buffs do you want to grab first (if any)? do you just want to get a few small camps on the way in order to get just enough for a level, this could also vary dramtically based on 1 or 2 junglers.

3) ganking top lane - pretty much the same as 2 except the buffs would be different, in which case you could discuss which buff is more important to get first, or what to get before/after that in order to get the most gold/exp prior to the gank.

4) obj control - perhaps you want to focus around taking enemy spirit wells early and giving your team an advantage, how do you go about this, what route to take to get exp on the way there, what to steal from enemy jungle, what should team-mates do to keep their lane enemies from going after you etc.

if anyone has any more ideas on goals for jungling feel free to post them!

Characters:

Also we can discuss which characters are actually capable at jungling - for example I saw a Fenmore jungle that actually worked pretty decently, but he took the farm method + obj control over ganking. He cleared the power camp and a few small camps before going to harass the minions at the top enemy spirit well, which actually caused the laners to go after him through the jungling, letting the allies beat the crud out of the tower before they got back.

Terminology:

One other thing that could be useful for the forums, and possibly even in game are abbreviations/contractions or whatever for typical terms used in this game. In-game this will allow a quicker flow of information, and on the forums they could be used for charts and the like.

A few suggested:

SW - Spirit well, pretty simple and I'm pretty sure the letters overlap with any other terms in the game.

ETop,EBot,ATop,ABot - enemy top, enemy bot, ally top, ally bot respectively. These could be used to describe specific placement on the map, from brushes to camps and even the spirit wells (ETop SW is pretty specific). I realize there are pings in the game, but sometimes you might want to talk over a quick plan of action which isn't exactly easily conveyed through a single ping.

over time I'm sure people will also probably come up with names for the different shapes of brush as well, kinda like how there's the tri-brush, bannana brush, river bush etc. in league.


Finally a map to use for discussion:

http://i.imgur.com/L64knRm.jpg

credit to the creator in the pic.

iOrganic
06-22-2013, 12:00 PM
A risky route I liked to do:
Get an early risky ward in their jungle to see what camp their jungler was headed after I cleared blue. Then I would sneak around to the buff they would be taking last and steal it.

You can adapt during the game and do this if their jungler ganks early on.

TheRelicOfOwls
06-22-2013, 02:58 PM
I like the one I saw where you get one of the side buffs and go for the enemy side buff while they're still at blue. The person I saw was using Moya and they just hopped over a few walls to the buff and back in order to do it undetected and had both green and orange buff before the enemy had even finished a second camp after blue.

TheFruitCup
06-22-2013, 03:22 PM
Alright buddy here is my jungle route. Instead of starting blue like most junglers, I like clearing the map from top to bottom. Start at green buff or orange buff. The reasons are that both of these buffs give you benefits to clear easier, Armor or Power. At the beginning of the game i like to ward rather their top buff or bottom buff, whichever side i'm starting on. It isn't really that dangerous to do this because there's not enough players on the map to defend any buff and all you need is to drop a ward over the wall and leave. I first start in one of the camps near the buff that spawn earlier. With the help of my team I am able to clear both the camp and the buff without using the smite ability. Well i clear one side of the map, once again top or bottom not middle, and i save the smite, sort of like a smiteless blue buff in LoL. I see with the ward that i placed if the enemy jungler started in the same side of the map as i did. If not then i head over to their buff quickly and use smite on it. I then start clearing jungle camps by sections. Lets say i started top side, i would clear top side, gank top lane, clear middle, gank bot, clear bot and recall. If i happen to get too low during the run i would just recall and continue where i was (its not long re-spawn timers unlike other MOBAs and you dont have to walk so far away from base to get to the jungle).
My Play-style:
First of all the jungler i play is freia. One unique thing that i do is that i max out W first, the jump. The reason i like doing this is because of the following-
1. Faster camp clearing. Using the jump twice (due to 50 rage) on a camp will leave the small ones at half hp. This will save you about 2-3 auto attacks on the small ones.
2. Lower cooldown. Freia's W is actually a really strong and reliable skill. She is able to jump over walls to teammates or enemies. This spell allows her to be mobile. The lower the cooldown the more mobile she is. (She can have clutch escapes such as double jumps to Soul Well minions or warding over walls to jump to jungle camps)
3. Easier cleanup. Lets say your teammates had a level 2 fight up at top lane. Both sides are low hp. Leveling up W first gives you way more earlier damage. You can litterly walk up to one of them under tower, W to them then W to a minion.

Itemization:
One core item that i think is really strong is Glory. Yea i get it, why get a tanky item on a assassin? Well the reason is the following. First of all people haven't thought about this but you can add counter pressure. With glory you can clear the minions in their Soul Well litterally in seconds. I capitalize a lot in counter pressure. Glory alouds you to clear camps extremely fast and also allows you to split push. Aha yes the split push. With freias amazing double gap closer i believe this works. If enemy team tries to capitalize in one of your soul wells you can just push the lane in the opposite side of the map in seconds. (i'll trade a soul well for a turret any day).

Well yea those are my thoughts gimme some feedback guys c:

TheRelicOfOwls
06-22-2013, 04:27 PM
Alright buddy here is my jungle route. Instead of starting blue like most junglers, I like clearing the map from top to bottom. Start at green buff or orange buff. The reasons are that both of these buffs give you benefits to clear easier, Armor or Power. At the beginning of the game i like to ward rather their top buff or bottom buff, whichever side i'm starting on. It isn't really that dangerous to do this because there's not enough players on the map to defend any buff and all you need is to drop a ward over the wall and leave. I first start in one of the camps near the buff that spawn earlier. With the help of my team I am able to clear both the camp and the buff without using the smite ability. Well i clear one side of the map, once again top or bottom not middle, and i save the smite, sort of like a smiteless blue buff in LoL. I see with the ward that i placed if the enemy jungler started in the same side of the map as i did. If not then i head over to their buff quickly and use smite on it. I then start clearing jungle camps by sections. Lets say i started top side, i would clear top side, gank top lane, clear middle, gank bot, clear bot and recall. If i happen to get too low during the run i would just recall and continue where i was (its not long re-spawn timers unlike other MOBAs and you dont have to walk so far away from base to get to the jungle).
My Play-style:
First of all the jungler i play is freia. One unique thing that i do is that i max out W first, the jump. The reason i like doing this is because of the following-
1. Faster camp clearing. Using the jump twice (due to 50 rage) on a camp will leave the small ones at half hp. This will save you about 2-3 auto attacks on the small ones.
2. Lower cooldown. Freia's W is actually a really strong and reliable skill. She is able to jump over walls to teammates or enemies. This spell allows her to be mobile. The lower the cooldown the more mobile she is. (She can have clutch escapes such as double jumps to Soul Well minions or warding over walls to jump to jungle camps)
3. Easier cleanup. Lets say your teammates had a level 2 fight up at top lane. Both sides are low hp. Leveling up W first gives you way more earlier damage. You can litterly walk up to one of them under tower, W to them then W to a minion.

Itemization:
One core item that i think is really strong is Glory. Yea i get it, why get a tanky item on a assassin? Well the reason is the following. First of all people haven't thought about this but you can add counter pressure. With glory you can clear the minions in their Soul Well litterally in seconds. I capitalize a lot in counter pressure. Glory alouds you to clear camps extremely fast and also allows you to split push. Aha yes the split push. With freias amazing double gap closer i believe this works. If enemy team tries to capitalize in one of your soul wells you can just push the lane in the opposite side of the map in seconds. (i'll trade a soul well for a turret any day).

Well yea those are my thoughts gimme some feedback guys c:

very informative and well thought out. The Glory buy actually makes alot of sense, kind of like how shen uses sunfire to split push faster, except in this case it will actively inhibit enemy gold income and possibly cap the well. The maxing of W is also interesting, mobility for a melee champ is pretty key though.

What do you think about life-drain on Freia? effective at all, or is it better to build tankier or more damage dealing?

iOrganic
06-22-2013, 04:55 PM
Build Glory first, then everything else. The item is way too good right now.

TheFruitCup
06-22-2013, 05:24 PM
very informative and well thought out. The Glory buy actually makes alot of sense, kind of like how shen uses sunfire to split push faster, except in this case it will actively inhibit enemy gold income and possibly cap the well. The maxing of W is also interesting, mobility for a melee champ is pretty key though.

What do you think about life-drain on Freia? effective at all, or is it better to build tankier or more damage dealing?

I start out with the life-drain item and two pots just so i can survive long early and not have to recall. but i dont build it into anything til after i get 2 tanky items (Glory and some other situational item) After that then i start building glass cannon. I like building tanky first because glory + base damage is enough for early game damage.

TheRelicOfOwls
06-22-2013, 05:54 PM
I start out with the life-drain item and two pots just so i can survive long early and not have to recall. but i dont build it into anything til after i get 2 tanky items (Glory and some other situational item) After that then i start building glass cannon. I like building tanky first because glory + base damage is enough for early game damage.

sounds like a legit set up.

So if your building glass cannon do you go for raw Power stacking mostly or do you throw some Mastery in there for crit chance? I imagine Freia would work quite well with crit considering she's got everything in her kit to get plenty of Haste (with passive + ult). Then again she's also melee, and I'm still unsure on the status of melee assassins/carries in this game.

TheFruitCup
06-22-2013, 06:21 PM
Mastery is fine but i usually build sort of bruiserish on her. a lot of sustain life steam and items such as the item that gives damage the lower health you are. The second tank item i usually build is the item that works like mundos ult that when you get down to a certain percentage of health you start regening a lot of health. This item is really good in my opinion because since there are so many armor pen items, building health seems to be more reliable and this item gives like 600 health. Also the more health the more damage your glory does. (Glory does damage= 1.2% of health).

TheRelicOfOwls
06-22-2013, 06:28 PM
Mastery is fine but i usually build sort of bruiserish on her. a lot of sustain life steam and items such as the item that gives damage the lower health you are. The second tank item i usually build is the item that works like mundos ult that when you get down to a certain percentage of health you start regening a lot of health. This item is really good in my opinion because since there are so many armor pen items, building health seems to be more reliable and this item gives like 600 health. Also the more health the more damage your glory does. (Glory does damage= 1.2% of health).

I believe your thinking of Rebirth? kinda works like Voli passive if I remember correctly.

Anyway, I might try out a carry build on just to see how it works, maybe with some lifesteal she can survive long enough to get some kills. However, I did not know that about Glory, I thought it had a static amount of damage per second (but I may have been confused with Pride and assumed they worked the same just with more damage on Glory or something). Sounds like building that tanky might make you lose out on some damage potential to me considering her scaling + ult - but her base damages are pretty darn respectable, guess it depends on playstyle.

TheFruitCup
06-22-2013, 06:40 PM
i just find that she gets kited a lot since almost every character has some sort of gap closer or slow.

TheRelicOfOwls
06-22-2013, 07:28 PM
i just find that she gets kited a lot since almost every character has some sort of gap closer or slow.

fair enough.

What about Spirit Well control? Freia seems to be pretty decent at taking out workers quickly and she's an excellent duelist (assuming you max Q over W) so if someone comes after her she can take them on most of the time. You also already like building Glory which would be excellent for clearing the workers as well - do you think you'd stick to the same jungle route if your planning on harassing the enemy Spirit Well early on?

FeedAPandas
06-22-2013, 07:42 PM
i just find that she gets kited a lot since almost every character has some sort of gap closer or slow.

Have you tried building one the "Control" stem items? I find that if you slip that in there somewhere (even if its just the first tier) and pop out of the jungle with 100rage and w-e-q-e-q or ee-qq even if they do some how survive your burst, the control procs should keep them in place long enough to AA for the clean up or have the lane your ganking clean up. I mean you could even slip in the item(forgot its name atm, but stems for haste) that increases AA range and has a root on first AA? I'm not sure how much damage you might possibly lose from the haste item, but her damage is pretty crazy at base anyhow.

Really do think the way to go however is to start at green or orange, puts you at level 2 on one camp and makes the rest of your route easier. With someone like freia who naturally clears fast and safely, why not speed it up even more seeing as your early-mid game is essential.

With spirit well control/harass, if you have glory.. i think its relatively easy for any jangler. Although with freia if someone comes to interrupt your fun in well, (assuming you maxed Q over W) it should be a kill and a well. Not to mention if you started at one of buffs already talked about and for some reason wanted to harass early wells(maybe draw people out of lane to lose xp?) you'd have a level advantage, which is obviously hugeee in early game.

TheRelicOfOwls
06-22-2013, 09:24 PM
Have you tried building one the "Control" stem items? I find that if you slip that in there somewhere (even if its just the first tier) and pop out of the jungle with 100rage and w-e-q-e-q or ee-qq even if they do some how survive your burst, the control procs should keep them in place long enough to AA for the clean up or have the lane your ganking clean up. I mean you could even slip in the item(forgot its name atm, but stems for haste) that increases AA range and has a root on first AA? I'm not sure how much damage you might possibly lose from the haste item, but her damage is pretty crazy at base anyhow.

Really do think the way to go however is to start at green or orange, puts you at level 2 on one camp and makes the rest of your route easier. With someone like freia who naturally clears fast and safely, why not speed it up even more seeing as your early-mid game is essential.

With spirit well control/harass, if you have glory.. i think its relatively easy for any jangler. Although with freia if someone comes to interrupt your fun in well, (assuming you maxed Q over W) it should be a kill and a well. Not to mention if you started at one of buffs already talked about and for some reason wanted to harass early wells(maybe draw people out of lane to lose xp?) you'd have a level advantage, which is obviously hugeee in early game.

this is pretty much my sentiment as well. I might have to look into that Control item though, I think I know what your talking about, I think I accidentally built it on Zeri once - builds out of Clarity I think - I just wanted CDR and got Clarity but didn't know what to go with on the legendary tier so I just got the one with a root since it fit in with the rest of my utility as her.

FeedAPandas
06-22-2013, 09:43 PM
The control Item comes off of the power tree. It moves into one of the items being a minor slow and movement increase on damage that decays over 2 seconds, then other being just a huge flat slow on damage.

The "root" item I was talking about comes off of the blue haste "cdr" w/e is. It branches off into i think starcaller and something else. Thats why I was slightly worried about throwing that particular item in with a freia build. Seeing as the control item builds from power and bumps your damage up I felt like it might be a better pick. Then again with freia's base damage so powerful, maybe the haste(AS/CDR) might be a better fit for the root? Seeing as you could then effectively W(proc root)e-qq-e? Which would in turn give you 1s root on the start of the engagement allowing you to possibly unload both q's, then getting the stun off of the second e. That should hands down be a kill or at least a bunch of spells like flash being burned for what... 20s worth of your own cds? Then if you're chasing someone down the root procs with freias absurd w range should mean no one could possibly get away in a 1v1 situation.

On the note of building the root item (that I guess will rename nameless) on any "support" intented shaper, imho would be an awesome pick up for the effect alone. Being able to root the enemy carry... at a 25% further distance AA, GEEGEE :). Not to mention all that safe harass you would get. LOL big ol desaacrayyytooooooor E stun - q knock up- walk up auto for silence + root xDDDD.

Might have gotten a little off of the subject there... but you got my mind going lmfaooo XD

TheRelicOfOwls
06-22-2013, 11:29 PM
The control Item comes off of the power tree. It moves into one of the items being a minor slow and movement increase on damage that decays over 2 seconds, then other being just a huge flat slow on damage.

The "root" item I was talking about comes off of the blue haste "cdr" w/e is. It branches off into i think starcaller and something else. Thats why I was slightly worried about throwing that particular item in with a freia build. Seeing as the control item builds from power and bumps your damage up I felt like it might be a better pick. Then again with freia's base damage so powerful, maybe the haste(AS/CDR) might be a better fit for the root? Seeing as you could then effectively W(proc root)e-qq-e? Which would in turn give you 1s root on the start of the engagement allowing you to possibly unload both q's, then getting the stun off of the second e. That should hands down be a kill or at least a bunch of spells like flash being burned for what... 20s worth of your own cds? Then if you're chasing someone down the root procs with freias absurd w range should mean no one could possibly get away in a 1v1 situation.

On the note of building the root item (that I guess will rename nameless) on any "support" intented shaper, imho would be an awesome pick up for the effect alone. Being able to root the enemy carry... at a 25% further distance AA, GEEGEE :). Not to mention all that safe harass you would get. LOL big ol desaacrayyytooooooor E stun - q knock up- walk up auto for silence + root xDDDD.

Might have gotten a little off of the subject there... but you got my mind going lmfaooo XD

please don't give the Desecrator players ideas, my body is not ready ;_;